Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: Handle in wrong position
I only need one handle per furniture object, right?
Or do I need a handle for each seat? (that just sounds wrong)
Okay, I have a 4 seater object and have placed the handle in the center, at the "table"
In previewer, the handle is right over a seat, instead of in center of object as I had placed it in 3ds.
I just noticed that my root node is actually at that seat position.
Will my handle be aligned to the positioning of the root in the previewer regardless of where handle is in 3ds?
I had UN linked everything prior to placement. I linked everything that I needed in the skeleton after placement and prior to skinning my mesh.
So, as I had moved the handle away from the root while it was not linked, shouldn't it keep it's positioning? OR, is the handle is dependent on the root position regardless of where handle is placed in scene?
Thanks for bearing with me. I seem to be having a mental block with this as compared to learning hair/shoes/etc.
(catcher/pitcher are generated automatically according to the seatnodes in imvu if they are missing)
The mesh is always in the root level with the root and mostly weighted to the root helper/bone whatever.
The seats and nodes are linked to the root.
so if you move the root, the handles, seats and catcher/pitcher move along because the root is their parent, the mesh moves because it is weighted to the root.
You need one corresponding handle for each seat. there the linking does not matter. it is handled in the imvu engine via the naming convention.
Handle01 corresponds to Seat01.somewhat - no matter where handle01 is places.
if you place handle 01 over seat02 and click the handle, the avatar is moved to seat01. _________________
Okay, then maybe I do not know what a handle is. What is it, why is it needed, what does it do?
Do handles have a 'front' and 'back'? Are they directional?
Does the handle tell you where to click to sit in a seat or stand in a spot?
I have 3 chairs with no handles and I can sit in them in previewer.
My mesh is comprised of 4 chairs and a center table.
I have my catcher/pitcher nodes per chair (in case avatars want to interact)
I have a Seat01.Sitting - Seat04.Sitting.
I have Handle01 which in 3ds is placed at center of table.
Now, what I want is to be able to rotate mesh in previewer (and ultimately client) around a center pivot point rather than rotate at the edge which it is currently doing. Soooo, if I unlink all elements, I have to move the root to the center of the mesh so that it will pivot at the center OR do I have to move the mesh and nodes to surround the root?
To my way of thinking, as long as nothing is linked, I can place that root wherever I want, right? Or does it have to be at 0,0,0 ?
Ah and just now remembered that the mesh, being skinned to root, will have to be "un" skinned to move things about.
hm, lemme think here . . .
When you are in furniture mode in previewer and client, if you want to move a piece of furniture, there is a little circle that you 'grab' to drag your furniture or rotate it. I thought that was a "handle" because you 'grab' it to move the object.
So, what generates that circle that we click and hold when we move our furniture across a room?
Is that directly related to the positioning of the root node in 3ds?
This bit:
Quote:
(catcher/pitcher are generated automatically according to the seatnodes in imvu if they are missing)
I do not want that on this project. There is an instance where I do NOT want the avatars to be messed with if someone clicks them to interact.
Sorry to be so dense.
Learning avatar attachments, shoes, hair and to make simple furniture was SOOOO damn easy in comparison. No idea what my mental block is here unless I'm trying to understand a bit too much.
I am trying to learn what every dummy object does and *why* it performs it's functions.
I'm sure I'll have more questions relating to this project later but man, I can't thank you guys enough for the help I've gotten
Oh and while waiting for answers I am experimenting of course. I mean I've made stuff that crashes the client then keeps me from being able to log in so I know how to deal with my little mistakes
We will return to our regularly scheduled poses/animation series after this project is done
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 359 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject:
Yes, the handle is that little icon that pops up to tell you where you can sit. Ideally, you should have one for each seat<number>.<pose> in your product or the previewer/client will automatically create and assign one in places you may not want it (or so it appears).
Again, yes, the root can be placed where ever you want, and it is that which determines the pivot point and the identifier when you are in edit mode. I generally find it good practice to place the root in the centre of the item, but at 0 on the z plane, so that it doesn't sink into the ground when you place it.
I think that covers everything, but I'm sure ArExMa will have chimed in by now with a much more detailed and accurate answer! x _________________
Experimenting with root node did indeed show me that the mesh pivots around it. So, I have that fixed.
I still have NO IDEA what's up with handles because I have a chair to which I have no handle assigned - there is no dummy, no nothing.
Yet in previewer, I can hover over that chair, see my little blue circle with the yellow chair icon to indicate that I sit in that chair with no handle.
So, I know I can determine front/back with the Seat node but do handles need a front/back?
I also have a question about using LOCAL to determine front/back of a node but can't quite figure out how to word my question . . .
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 359 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject:
As far as I'm aware, when the client can't find a handle for the seat nodes, it will create one either on, or slightly above the seat<number>.<pose> helper. Much in the same way that it will create the catcher and pitcher nodes if it can't find them. I could be wrong on this point as I've not really experimented with it all that much.
Also, from experience it doesn't seem to matter which way a handle is facing, it just seems to be used a locater for the seating icon.
With regards to using LOCAL to identify node facing, looking at my meshes seems to imply that:
Y Faces the back,
Z Faces upwards and
X doesn't seem to matter.
That probably wasn't answering the right question, but I've not got my formal training as a psychic booked yet! _________________
Hmm, had to reboot so have learned nothing since last post.
Okay well, we'll see if catcher/pitcher are generated when I don't assign them.
As far as handles being generated by client, gosh, almost seems a shame to do the work to make, place and name them. Well, I'm not that lazy so I'll deal with it.
I have some nodes to rotate and then I'll test the catcher/pitcher thing in client.
Oh and the local setting - I read on the imvu tutorial for rooms how to use it to relate to how things will point to the 'inside' of the room but it is kind of confusing. I'm still not sure how to determine if something is facing the correct direction.
Seems like I have to piggy back off of an imvu sample piece of furniture and clone their nodes so that I can have things rotated how I need them.
Ohohoh I did take a catcher/pitcher set and rotate them to be at a 90 degree angle to a chair.
In theory, I want the avatar interaction to take place to the side of the chair, not directly in front of it. I left Seat01 in place, but Catcher01 and Pitcher01 were rotated and moved.
That particular mesh did NOT show up in previewer. Would improper placement of catcher/pitcher affect this like by causing confusion in the skeleton?
Are we locked into placement of catcher/pitcher? I mean, it's kind of silly to have to force avatars to greet or hug while intersecting a piece of furniture.
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 359 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject:
In short, select a node, choose the rotate tool, then select 'Local' from the drop down box to the right.
If you look in the centre of the rotating sphere, you'll see the local axes for that particular node, for each node, the Z axis should be pointing towards the center of the room.
Generally:
Seat nodes point up
Floor nodes point up
Ceiling nodes point down
Wall nodes point away from the wall. _________________
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 359 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject:
Ah right, sorry, I'm trying to be helpful and kinda failing, typical me ¬_¬
For standing nodes, the avatar will face the opposite direction to the Local Y axis of the node.
I know it sounds stupid, but make sure you didn't have one of the seat nodes accidentally selected when you exported, I've done that and worked myself up over it so often it isn't even funny. Well, maybe a little.
Another problem I often find myself repeating is forgetting to export the meshes after I change the skeleton, but both can cause the 'invisible mesh effect'. _________________
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 359 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject:
Ok, I'm using a standing spot here as well.
Top picture is the standing node in world, the blue arrow is the direction the avatar faces.
The middle and last picture are the node viewed in local with the rotation tool selected, the only difference is one has 'x' toggled and the other doesn't. But you can see that the y axis points away from the direction the avatar is pointing in both.
As you can see, as long as you have the rotate tool selected and you are viewing the node with local, it'll show the direction the node is facing. _________________
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 Posts: 11655 Location: USA - WA
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject:
Mercuria I have 4 seating "spot' made a few day ago..n actually you help me a lot whit those... I have to clone those one piece at the time so I can named them the right way, one by one but after like 4 hours those work perfect...if you like I can send them to you... those are setting position for a table .. if you wan to moved them just rotated the whole set..
you can use them or use as a reference...
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