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Polygon strange black shading
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Vybe_disabled_61187110 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:59 pm    Post subject: Polygon strange black shading Reply with quote

Hi, i've had this a few times but it never really bothered me much. This time it happend multiple times however. I get this weird shading on polygons. No matter if i change smoothing groups etc. I've also tried merging vertex with others but that messes up even more. All polygons are connected with lines (that's sometimes the issue) but it still happens.

I also noticed that the both outer walls (the one behind the avatar & in front) has either no light or white light although there's 1 omni with a blue color. the rest of the walls are fine.


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Keodi

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Note: soften = smooth, edge = line.
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Vybe_disabled_61187110 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well actually the mesh goes like this:


I've tried no smoothing at all, diferent smoothing groups for each texture, auto smooth etc
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Jaleman31 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you try and deleted those walls?.
using "cap" fill the wholes and this time careful not to move those vertices
are you using cut to make those "windows" ?
it will help if you post a wire mode picture of the mesh.
low poly mesh like that you don't need to use smooth..
if any of those vertices is out of place , you get that . the easy way would be to re make the walls.
you can try to fix them by selecting vertices and using "make planer" but depend on the mesh and what you select it can get worst.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vybe wrote:
Well actually the mesh goes like this: ...


Which is exactly why you have those shading problems.

It should go like this:



Configure your verts like that and smooth the way I showed in my previous diagram and most, if not all, of your issues should go away.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which is exactly why you have those shading problems.


your way will work but.
the way he got it work too, even with a lot less polygons.
I think when he made the windows , move some of those vertices and to put them back can be harder than making a new wall and windows.
it can be done like this with max.
door and a window from one of my rooms.


is the rear from this one.

http://www.imvu.com/shop/product.php?products_id=32752930
http://www.imvu.com/shop/product.php?products_id=32647600


this one was done the same way on every door and window/ opening.
http://www.imvu.com/shop/product.php?products_id=32796660
if not moving vertices or anything else is better to use the select object tool than select and move gizmo tool.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaleman31 wrote:
Quote:
Which is exactly why you have those shading problems.


your way will work but.
the way he got it work too, even with a lot less polygons.
I think when he made the windows , move some of those vertices and to put them back can be harder than making a new wall and windows.
it can be done like this with max.
door and a window from one of my rooms.


is the rear from this one.

http://www.imvu.com/shop/product.php?products_id=32752930
http://www.imvu.com/shop/product.php?products_id=32647600


this one was done the same way on every door and window/ opening.
http://www.imvu.com/shop/product.php?products_id=32796660
if not moving vertices or anything else is better to use the select object tool than select and move gizmo tool.


In reality yours is no different to mine J, the only difference is that mine shows full triangulation, yours is just the n-gons. Both overcome the problem of Vybe's broken lines which lead to that shading effect he is seeing.
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Nums 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're ever wondering what's going on with your triangulation, you can either permanently have it on by unchecking Edges Only in Object properties.
http://puu.sh/oRHUA/eebbafc3f9.png

Or occasionally check it by going into Edge mode and clicking the, Turn, option.
http://puu.sh/oRHRj/755999be79.png

It's also a good way to make sure you don't have any extra vertices anywhere on your mesh, because they can easily cause problems like this.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaleman31 wrote:
have you try and deleted those walls?.
using "cap" fill the wholes and this time careful not to move those vertices
are you using cut to make those "windows" ?
it will help if you post a wire mode picture of the mesh.
low poly mesh like that you don't need to use smooth..
if any of those vertices is out of place , you get that . the easy way would be to re make the walls.
you can try to fix them by selecting vertices and using "make planer" but depend on the mesh and what you select it can get worst.


i've selected lines & used connect, how i do most of the time.

Thanks all for their input. Will try some and see how it goes
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still get similar problems some times when I am not careful.
for example like your room, I split / detach the wall, using the move gizmo I move the wall a little bit out by mistake or don't even notice , make the windows and then go to the coroners and weld those vertices back whit the rest of the room.
the vertices on the comers move back where they belong but the vertices on the window stay out a little bit and give you that problem.
max by default will use the select and move gizmo, try to use the select object instead.
this one even if you want to move vertices , you cant ..Smile
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZaraKaine, only time I saw those was when I have a different video card and change the settings on max from 3d to open GL.
those are there ( depend on the graphic mode we have set on max) and most of the time we cant see them but we can also add those extra poly and make it look that way.( from quad to triangles)
this will make the mesh bigger on kbytes and polys, harder to unwrap etc.
I know what you saying but for someone who never seen those in max, can be confusing.
I know I was, when I was following tutorials back several years ago and I saw those meshes whit triangles and mine look square.
and every tutorial, they tell you to use quad no triangles.
I said WTH..lol
was very confusing for me.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaleman31 wrote:
ZaraKaine, only time I saw those was when I have a different video card and change the settings on max from 3d to open GL.
those are there ( depend on the graphic mode we have set on max) and most of the time we cant see them but we can also add those extra poly and make it look that way.( from quad to triangles)
this will make the mesh bigger on kbytes and polys, harder to unwrap etc.
I know what you saying but for someone who never seen those in max, can be confusing.
I know I was, when I was following tutorials back several years ago and I saw those meshes whit triangles and mine look square.
and every tutorial, they tell you to use quad no triangles.
I said WTH..lol
was very confusing for me.


I'm not saying to add triangulation if it's unnecessary, N-gons are lower kbs and perfect for flat plane areas, I'm just trying to illustrate that the vertical lines running down from the windows in Vybe's model should instead run to the corners of the wall.

Running vertically down to what should be an unbroken horizontal edge is what caused those unwanted shading effects. The way I like to think of it is as stress fractures, adding triangulation intelligently to certain areas of a mesh can de-stress it and eliminate weird lighting issues. Knowing how to balance the combination of smoothed and hard edges helps too, I usually do this manually as it is rare for an automatic routine to run and get my smoothing exactly how I want it. It's especially important when using vertex shading.
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes welding / attaching to corners would be better, less lose vertices.
chief architect do this by default .
boolean whit max do it too but can get messy and give you other problems.
question..
Quote:
I usually do this manually as it is rare for an automatic routine to run and get my smoothing exactly how I want it

in max is to add turbo smooth or mesh smooth = adding extra polygons to a mesh to smooth curbs, lines etc..
or related to smooth groups ids.
when you say smoothing, what do you mean?
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good info all around.

Just my two cents but I would avoid the issue and just build the wall as the wall (a simple plane) and then put a plane in front of that. Or two planes to handle your 2 Picture Frame Window like things. Becomes much easier to move the window later, to different Heights or widths. While connect is a very cool Edge tool, it does have the issues, sometimes, that you are seeing. It also has the disadvantage of fixing the size and position of your window. Becomes much trickier to move around.
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaleman31 wrote:
yes welding / attaching to corners would be better, less lose vertices.
chief architect do this by default .
boolean whit max do it too but can get messy and give you other problems.
question..
Quote:
I usually do this manually as it is rare for an automatic routine to run and get my smoothing exactly how I want it

in max is to add turbo smooth or mesh smooth = adding extra polygons to a mesh to smooth curbs, lines etc..
or related to smooth groups ids.
when you say smoothing, what do you mean?


When Zara talks about smoothing she is probably talking about the far superior smoothing routines built into SketchUp which let you smooth as little, or as much, geometry as you like in one simple operation. Incidentally a lot of that diagonal crease on a face problem is caused when the exporter converts a polygon mesh into a triangulated mesh and because the wrong smoothing settings were used it adds a vertex that has different smoothing settings. Having said that I have to agree with other people who have said it - Houses have a real bad habit of having "hard edges and corners" and the only parts of the mesh that should be smoothed are those containing curves or curved edges.

Whilst Nerseus has come up with a far better solution for rooms where no opacity textures are used the windows set slightly in front of the wall method will certainly produce a far lower poly-count. The only problem with it is the texture on the wall will be present behind the texture on the windows which would prevent anyone using a texture that needs/uses an opacity on the windows.

Zara was correct when she mentioned that broken lines/edges cause problems, where possible every line/edge should only have 2 vertexes, one at its start and one at its end. Broken lines/edges have multiple vertexes and guess what the exporter goes looking for when it's building the .xmf; vertexes and the more it finds the larger the xmf and the poly-count will be
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