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2Tee2
Joined: 09 Apr 2010 Posts: 150 Location: Bulgaria
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: skin vs physique? skeletons etc |
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does it really matter which modifier we use?
Last edited by 2Tee2 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AdelleG
Joined: 10 Oct 2009 Posts: 583 Location: USA - CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: skin vs physique? |
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2Tee2 wrote: | does it really matter which modifier we use? |
for accesories u have to use skin for clothing u have to use physique _________________
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AdelleG
Joined: 10 Oct 2009 Posts: 583 Location: USA - CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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or u can use skin on clothing too but its better to use physique on clothing _________________
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2Tee2
Joined: 09 Apr 2010 Posts: 150 Location: Bulgaria
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: skin vs physique? |
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AdelleG wrote: | 2Tee2 wrote: | does it really matter which modifier we use? |
for accesories u have to use skin for clothing u have to use physique |
why? what might be the pros and cons? after all both modifiers just translate/rotate vertices in the coresponding bone(s) coordinate system |
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AdelleG
Joined: 10 Oct 2009 Posts: 583 Location: USA - CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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yes they both pretty much do the same thing however imvu states that for accessories we have to use skin all tho if u make lets say a dress mesh and u want to apply accessories to that dress and make it as one mesh u can weigh everything with physique but if u do accessories separately like earrings and such u have t use skin lol i know its sounds confusing and doesnt really make any sense but for more info u should read in the imvu creator center for more details as to why it is like this _________________
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2Tee2
Joined: 09 Apr 2010 Posts: 150 Location: Bulgaria
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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AdelleG wrote: | i know its sounds confusing and doesnt really make any sense |
oh, it makes perfect sense. imvu provided templates use physique hence all the tutorials are about it
btw, physique together with biped used to be a plugin called "character studio" if remember correctly. funny they chose to use physique but not biped. probably couse TCB controllers aint really intuitive
anyway, may i encounter anu issues if i use skin? if so, what? |
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AdelleG
Joined: 10 Oct 2009 Posts: 583 Location: USA - CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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no, not really, if u know how to weigh using any of those 2 modifiers u shouldn't have any trouble as i said they pretty much do the same thing except for they have different methods of doing it _________________
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nerseus
Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 2008 Location: USA - AZ
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Despite any tutorial from IMVU saying otherwise, you can use Physique or Skin for anything you make. I've used Skin for everything, including clothing, accessories, rooms, etc.
Physique came around first, packaged with Biped as part of the Character Studio add-on (purchased separately) for Max. Around version 7 of Max, both were included. Biped just defines a general biped character and makes animation easier. But if you want your own model on top of it then you needed Physique. Later, Max added Skin. Personally, I've found Skin works better when editing a mesh - Skin tends to keep the existing weights better than Physique. Plus, Physique creates a "snapshot" in time of the bones and calls them links. Those links are what you are weighting to, not the bones. That leads to a few anomolies, such as having multiple links with the same name. That is, if you look at the IMVU avatar in Physique, you'll see multiple "Spine03" links.
But really it's a matter of preference. The default avatars come with Physique so unless you want to re-weight using Skin (I did) then you're better off keeping Physique. If you have a background in Max and know Skin, it might be worth it to convert OR maybe give Physique a go. What made me finally choose once and for all was that I wanted to script some things with MaxScript and Physique was... old. It didn't behave well and there was very little documentation on it. Probably won't sway many people though, as I'm guessing most don't use MaxScript.
-ner |
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twistednanny
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 2723 Location: Thailand
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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to add to ner's input
It is all personal preference. Now the clear difference between the 2 is how each vertex is weighted ~ Skin, vertices weighted to bones, Physique vertices weighted to links in the skeleton structure. You can achieve weighing results in both but you have to know how to use them very well. I use both and choose the one that gives me the results I like whenever I make a new mesh from scratch and yeah, it doesn't matter whether it is clothing or accessories because in the end it is all translated into an XMF file.
I skin this because it is much easier and faster to do, while I physique this to satisfy myself that it gives the same results. _________________
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2Tee2
Joined: 09 Apr 2010 Posts: 150 Location: Bulgaria
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: |
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thanx twisted and especially ner
Scripting skin for IMVU sounds interesting would you be so kind to share some of the details
PS
and a question, is there any reason i should skin to the pelvis dummy or could i just leave it alone? |
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twistednanny
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 2723 Location: Thailand
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Pelvis Node is the bone on top heirachy after Root so if you want your mesh to follow the avatar skin it to that. _________________
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2Tee2
Joined: 09 Apr 2010 Posts: 150 Location: Bulgaria
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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i forgot to mention im toying with a custom avatar mesh and having both the hip bones and the pelvis dummy being skinned to seems a bit redundant. mesh not following is not an issue in the case. some animations not working and other general issues is what im expecting
a few more questions, if i build my own skeleton, following the hierarchy and the naming convention of IMVU provided one, would it work?
also would a completely custom skeleton work? obviously it wont with any other product, would need its own animations etc but in general?
and one more, has anyone used phy2skin utility with any success? |
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Asterody_disabled_8876051
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 Posts: 64 Location: Spain
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Hello, guys! great information for Physique and Skin.. well I have a one question. For the hair.. Which is better? I use Skin but I want to find another way. Thanks all :} |
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AdelleG
Joined: 10 Oct 2009 Posts: 583 Location: USA - CA
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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2Tee2 wrote: | i forgot to mention im toying with a custom avatar mesh and having both the hip bones and the pelvis dummy being skinned to seems a bit redundant. mesh not following is not an issue in the case. some animations not working and other general issues is what im expecting
a few more questions, if i build my own skeleton, following the hierarchy and the naming convention of IMVU provided one, would it work?
also would a completely custom skeleton work? obviously it wont with any other product, would need its own animations etc but in general?
and one more, has anyone used phy2skin utility with any success? |
i have the phy2skin utility and it works fin for me, do u have issues with it? _________________
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twistednanny
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 2723 Location: Thailand
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | a few more questions, if i build my own skeleton, following the hierarchy and the naming convention of IMVU provided one, would it work? |
Meaning you make very different skeleton but use the same names as in IMVU's skeleton? Last time I tried it didn't work ~ it seemed that IMVU does not allow avatar's default skeleton to be replaced. However, having said that it was allowed (or there was some work around) very long time ago as I still have some avatar products that have totally different skeletons
Quote: | also would a completely custom skeleton work? obviously it wont with any other product, would need its own animations etc but in general? |
Yes, if you looked at my motorbike that is an avatar product with added skeleton. The avatar works normally with any other poses, action products in the catalog while it has its own set of animation with the bike. _________________
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