I think it's less that they can't and more that they don't want to. I've seen the classic client's code first hand and it is a mess. Not only from a organization/architectural standpoint but also in terms of technical debt. Overhauling it would be a huge undertaking. Sure, there's improvements they can make that would improve maintainability but people don't care about that. They want updates that add new features (which in turn add bloat to the code) or fix bugs.

When you combine that with the fact that most people want to use their phone these days and that they have to maintain 2 versions of the classic client, a mobile app and a website, It makes total sense why they are trying to merge it all into two systems (a website and a lightweight app that basically is a wrapper around the website). After all, devs cost money and being as they are a business, they have to focus their resources where they will see the biggest return.

While true, I don't think it's a redeemable excuse. I know from the age of it alone, plus a lot of the issues Classic has had over the years that there's a sense of spaghetti code going on there and it's probably gonna be a huge headache to overhaul. But the fact is, it feels like it's at the end of it's lifespan, both in terms of IMVU's direction and priorities and in terms of software tech. I wouldn't be surprised if the next iteration of Windows, or the one after doesn't support 32bit programs at all. It wouldn't be an issue if the Beta client (which let's be real, is basically just a desktop port of Next and Mobile) wasn't hot garbage. It looks like shit, it runs like shit and the UI is also awful. I get it, if overhauling the existing Classic client is too hard ...in which case, make a new one. One that isn't a godawful port. I've got no sympathy for IMVU as a company when it comes to the cost; they've had over a decade to fund it and it isn't the users' fault if their own actions have hurt their finances in the last few years.

They've made a shitload of money and will continue to make a good sum, with at least some guarantee of a big influx from AP+, even if it dies off almost immediately. They can absolutely afford the R&D or developers to overhaul or do a decent client. Again, look at SL - plenty of viewers to choose from. IMVU chose not to do that development earlier, just as they chose to make the big push for mobile that drove a lot of people away and just as they chose to get super politically correct and iron-fisted with users. I mean jesus, if they can afford to implement an AI system and new creator suite, they can afford a client overhaul, or one that's more than just a half-assed port.

It is extremely difficult to rewrite software completely and still write it in a way that is compatible with existing APIs. Almost no companies get the resources to do this. It's not really exclusive to IMVU, nor do I blame them for not doing it. Players don't really gain anything super tangible by them completely rewriting classic. I've worked with enough product managers to understand why they've gone the direction they have.

Windows is never going to stop supporting 32-bit programs though, so you don't have to worry about that.

I somewhat share the sentiment. Re-writing it is going to be a nightmare at worst, a headache at best, so I totally understand not doing it. Where I take the issue is the Beta client and/or Next being their solution; because it isn't a solution. It's a bare minimum stopgap with a view to replacing Classic. Except it's almost a complete downgrade to Classic and only reason they haven't already canned Classic is because it would all but entirely kill off IMVU as a whole. I've no doubts whoever signed off on the Beta and it's directional heading said "good enough", but it isn't. Ordinarily I wouldn't feel so strongly about it, since it would be suicidal to cut Classic and I highly doubt they will (though, common sense doesn't seem to be their company strong suit). But it's so limited as the core (and argueably best) platform for IMVU and recently it's been pretty unstable. I mean shit, GetMatched has been broken for over 5 years now, if not more. Though that's just a drop in the ocean of priority.

I understand IMVU is a shell of itself, so they don't want to invest much into it and innovate. But like I mentioned, they've had to time and success to do that while the money and popularity was there. They've also pushed their own users away. They can do better. They should be doing better in every facet and that's my gripe. (Across the board, not just with clients. I just feel the strongest about the total disregard to IMVU's clients by IMVU themselves.)

A major headache. I learned yesterday that the geko engine they are using the render practically everything doesn't support the flexbox spec which was introduced in 2009, received wide adoption by 2013 and the first version completed in 2018.

Luckily you got me here doing upgrades here and there. I can't update their geko engine unfortunately but I can make improvements to many things. Right now I'm working on a slight modernization to the chat window and building a font size customization feature.

Funny enough, IMVU started working on a redesign to the chat back in version 450.0 that was going to include font size settings but they seem to have abandoned it pretty early on. hard to tell what they were going for in it's current state.

Honestly, I'm not that surprised. What does that mean for IMVU itself (on the user level) with flexbox not being supported? It's not something I'm familiar with, but I'm definitely curious. I want to say more advanced graphics features are completely limited by Classic being 32bit and so limited on RAM usage, but if it's possible and IMVU themselves don't, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the IMVU+ features implemented into the Deep Client or T3DE on your end. I know that's extremely wishful thinking and low-priority though. I'd also bet on most of those features, especially in terms of graphics options and FX would probably have to be spoofed, rather than actually there if they were to be implemented into Classic in it's current 32bit form.

Outside of that, I'll never say no to more stability improvements and bug fixes. I wouldn't normally, but IMVU has been crashing like a motherfucker for me recently and others, from those I've talked to. Oddly: It seems to reset my render back to Standard Graphics for some of those crashes. I'm also nigh certain they're memory crashes, but I know it's unrelated to my cache, or what's in the cache at least. (i.e. clearing the cache makes no difference, so I know it isn't just too bloated.)

Auspicious K wrote:

What does that mean for IMVU itself (on the user level) with flexbox not being supported?

Not much, it affects the IMVU devs more than anything (and myself). Flexbox is a modern web layout model that makes it easy to layout content on a page. It makes responsive pages that adjust them selves as the user's browser/screen size changes much easier. Basically it makes building stuff easier.

Auspicious K wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the IMVU+ features implemented into the Deep Client or T3DE on your end. I know that's extremely wishful thinking and low-priority though.

I don't know about all the features but I know it's possible to port some of the lighting upgrades. We had someone do it and send us a copy of their code but I haven't gotten around to looking at it yet.

Auspicious K wrote:

IMVU has been crashing like a motherfucker for me recently and others, from those I've talked to.

Feel free to send me your log files whenever it happens and I'll take a look and see if I can figure out the cause.